I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. Very cool. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program You are just about at maximum speed and at the same time very close to stall speed. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Paste as plain text instead, So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Only the fuel tanks attached to rockets have any oxidiser in them. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Display as a link instead, When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. Why that? I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. Upload or insert images from URL. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. You can post now and register later. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. Upload or insert images from URL. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. The benefits should be obvious. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). Chapter 4. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. That will unlock: Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). This is the first version. In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. You can spin around the whole world on just fumes. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. Your previous content has been restored. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. You can go above 20km with the J-404 Panther. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Fighting oscillations. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. This is my current best hi alt plane. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. If you upgrade to the panther (or get one on a contract) that engine can get you much higher. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. 2.) The high performance engine for me performs pretty good till about 15000 meter. Or try using SRBs instead. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. And it's stock, unfortunately. Evidence. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. Powered by Invision Community. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? Upload or insert images from URL. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. You need to do it with what you've got. How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? Isn't that backwards snark? Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. Let me. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). Cheers again fellas. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. With only panthers unlocked I might add. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. You cannot paste images directly. These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. Your previous content has been restored. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. Its an approximation missing someelements. So Pvt. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. air) that high up. You can post now and register later. Your previous content has been restored. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. edited 6 yr. ago. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. I don't have that other stuff yet. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. Paste as plain text instead, First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. All rights reserved. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. The other one I stay around 6000 meters. Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. It flames out at 25,000. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. - Insane TWR didn't help. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. You cannot paste images directly. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Will post my results. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Planes in Space. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). A temple in the desert (6 29 47 S 141 40 3 W) known as Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn, although this name can only be seen when a vessel crashes into it. Pasted as rich text. Kerbal Space Program 2 . KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. The drag differential is because your long-wing layout is using a bunch of struts, and the reason your delta-wing has a higher ceiling is because it has more wing area to provide lift. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. Display as a link instead, Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude.
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