He had fallen deeply for Ella, and he had proposed to her and she had said no, and he saw in Marina somebody who was meant to distract him and carry him forward. I say that in all honesty, because he tried to become what he needed to be to achieve his immediate objectives; i.e., he needed to be a Marxist and accept the Russians [to] get the experience in Russia. What would it be? Also, he was put into an apartment that was a short walk from the Institute for Foreign Languages in Minsk, where one would meet girls who were studying English and were interested in foreigners, and were probably more adventurous, you might say. Hes already tried living with Mother for about a week to 10 days, and that went the way it usually goes. He was seeming to be pretty adamant about it. In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy? What was going on there? It just didnt fit. Well, it took him a little bit longer than that, but he started trying after a year to come back. Well, his concern was, was there anything that I was aware of that [there] were going to be charges placed against him from anybody? It just floors me, it floored me then. I asked him about this lawyer in New York and I told him I would get him one down here, meaning in Texas. What was he expecting when he went to the Soviet Union? Consequently, people left it wide open. Lees fantasy life, to me, became apparent in the 1948, 1949, 1950 period. He is the author of the 1981 book, The Plot To Kill the President, and in the late 1960s he campaigned for and helped write much of the anti-racketeering legislation that would usher in the demise of the Mafia. I don't think he had much experience with women, if any, before moving to the Soviet Union. Sending Out Veterans' Benefits, The Executive Branchs Response to the Flood of 1927, The Case For Calling the Language "American", America Fought Its Own Battle Over Books Before it Fought the Nazis. What do you do with his rifle? No, he was a superficial Marxist. discussion+glimpse of a life+links & readings+teacher's guide Buscar Amazon.es. I mean, youre his brother; you would want to believe more than anyone. This was 1959. And he was in the Marines as well. One, we tend to think of Kennedy as having been so great and really all-powerful, almost mythological, and at the same time we tend to think of Oswald as so low, that it seems unfathomable that somebody so low, so inconsequential, could topple someone so great. Why was he asking for this lawyer, John Abt, up in New York? True, no one saw him actually pull the trigger on the president but his presence in the building was there. She had certain characteristics that were so much like Lee: the time and circumstances always seemed to be against her; the world owed her a living; she wanted to be somebody. There's a logic in that. He was relaxed, but at about the second day, he starts talking about where hes going. Can you describe that for me? Historian Priscilla Johnson McMillan was a reporter in Moscow in the 1950s and interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald shortly after his defection to the Soviet Union. Killing Oswald: Directed by Shane O'Sullivan. Web Site Copyright 1995-2023 WGBH Educational Foundation. Youve got all kinds of documented evidence. Sat, Feb 25, 2023 LOGIN Subscribe for $1 The committee found that there was a "probable conspiracy," suggesting that parts of the Mafia and/or certain anti-Castro Cuban groups "may have been involved.". She had been overbearing or whatever. To me, you can't reach but one conclusion. But certainly by age three, he had the sense, "I need to be someplace else." He was, in fact, an American citizen all the time, and still had the rights of the American citizen. Did he evince any sort of sophisticated understanding of Marxism or communism, or of the Soviet Union in general, before he left for Russia? The first thing he says is -- and he points to it -- "It's tapped." His mother had the same type of imagination. For this 2003 publication of the interview, Mr. Blakey has added a notation to those questions touching on the CIA, and refers the reader to a long addendum at the end of the interview that reflects his opinion on the CIA in light of current revelations. You can't set that aside just because he is saying, "I'm a patsy." If Ukrainian intelligence did penetrate Putin's inner circle, Budanov would have never publicly blurted it out. I think that the allure of Marxism was its anger. It's about escaping the status quo and achieving some kind of greatness, as it were. He was toying with them. She is wanting to go back to Russia. He played an awful lot of hooky up there. . This was driven entirely by his own biography and history. You had said that he had very much been on his own in New York. I mean, they had asked the wrong man. Theyve gone to the extreme measures to prove that he owned that rifle. What did he say, and what were you trying to get out of him? Every move is prompted by one of his mother Marguerite's failures -- personal, professional, or otherwise. He knew something they didn't know, and he would keep it to himself. He's thinking about going to Cuba. LEGEND: THE SECRET WORLD OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD : Epstein, Edward Jay: Amazon.nl: Boeken. You dont think that there was any possibility that he was on some mission when he went to Russia? There is no question in my mind that Lee was responsible for the three shots fired, two of the shots hitting the president and killing him. His comment was she is "too much like Maw." That's almost unbelievable. That was it. A flat-screen TV plays interviews with Paine about Marina, Lee Harvey, Paine's grief about the assassination and the terrible aftermath. I couldnt believe it. Nobody was telling him whether this was good, bad or indifferent, or what the consequences of what his actions were. People ought to take note of this, that he should be interesting. When Lee got back from Russia, the way he talked about the Russian system, he didnt talk about it politically, in the sense that he was wrapped up in communism or Marxism. Definitely not. One was he wanted to get his manuscript typed up and written. She could really become somebody from New York real easy when shes in Texas, putting on the air[s], whatever you call it. I think he was surprised when he stepped off the plane in Dallas Field -- he asked me, "What, no reporters?" I didn't know -- but I think that was his posture all along, with the interrogators. Cuenta y listas Devoluciones y . He only had the Marxist argot. Obviously he married in the Soviet Union, and there was the woman, Ella German, with whom he had some sort of relationship. Very garrulous, very sexual, very clear about her objectives. This interview was conducted in 1993 in conjunction with the first broadcast of FRONTLINE's "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?". I think he just liked the atmosphere that you could do anything that you wanted to do, that you could imagine you could do. His plans, as we well know now, were already made to go to Russia, rather than to Cuba. Oswald met and married Marina in the Soviet. And so the Marines, and then later the Soviet Union, should be viewed as an attempt by Oswald to find structure, to find place. Even though Oswald says in his diary that Marina was surprised when he informed her he wanted to go back to the United States, she never puts any resistance. I didnt press it any further. Saltar al contenido principal.es. He's failing in his marriage and in his attempts to do whatever he wants to do. Zoeken Amazon.nl. In this interview, Posner talks . Can you summarize what the atmosphere was like there that Saturday, and what you made of it? [37]Within hours of Ruby's arrest for shooting Oswald, a telegram was received at the Dallas city jail in support of Ruby, under the names of Hal and Pauline Collins. The jobs not doing that good. If you had to take a guess about when he got his political beliefs, how he was introduced to Marxism, what would you guess? When Lee came back to Fort Worth, what kind of spirits was he in, and what kind of hopes did he have for his new life here? . Lee and Marina were having difficulties, just by being together I guess by being put in new circumstances and everything. Hes getting a better opportunity, he thinks, in Dallas, because its a bigger job market over there than what Fort Worth was at the time. In 1966, Marguerite Oswald, Lee Harvey Oswald's mother gave an exclusive interview to radio talk show host, Bob Allen. He moves into his own apartment and everything. (TV) Summary. I anticipated, and I said to the family, Hell be back within a year. Well, it took him a little bit longer than that, but he started trying after a year to come back. No. They even asked me if Id ever been an agent of the federal government or the CIA. I said, What did you tell them? He says, Well, dont you know? and he just laughed. This was his grand experience at the time. That influence was just tremendous on him. So he's very upbeat up on it. This interview was conducted in 1993 in conjunction with Frontline's first broadcast of "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald? What prompts him to take the first concrete steps to extricate himself from the Soviet Union is his break with Ella German. When Lee came back, how did he react to visits from the FBI when they came and saw him here? [To those who say,] "He didn't own a rifle." He would talk about anything else. But certainly by age three, he had the sense, I need to be someplace else. Mother would be putting him with a nanny, or a babysitter, or in an orphan home with us, just to get us out of her hair. and he just laughed. We spent some time together. Did she let you know and did she let him know that the kids were a burden? You don't think that there was any possibility that he was on some mission when he went to Russia? [He wanted to] get established and start the American life, live the American dream. At every step of the way, what leads Oswald to trying to remove himself from the Soviet Union is not anything intellectual or ideological -- nothing substantive in that respect. A former litigator, Posner is a fulltime investigative writer. Marina was upbeat on it. I asked him, I said, Lee, what in the Sam Hill is going on? He said, I dont know what theyre talking about. I said, Lee, theyve got you charged with the death of the president, shooting a police officer. . Now, on to his biography and the major point of your book: the biography of Lee Harvey Oswald. The result of the whole mismanagement was Lees death. I didn't press it any further. He did not and would not talk to any of the interrogators about anything of substance. But I think he was disappointed. But Lee had that same personality type. It didnt seem like a big deal. So hes very upbeat up on it. Well look into it.. I wrote him back that, to my knowledge, nothing he has done warrants any charges, because they did not let him accomplish anything over there, i.e., the U.S. Embassy did not accept his citizenship rejection. His wife is trying to have a second child born in Russia. Upon his return to the United States, was there a particular moment where Oswald decided to act violently? Hallo Bestemming kiezen Alle. NL. People ought to take note of this, that he should be interesting. We talked about this at a great length during that first week. Thats what it comes down to he wanted to be unique, by whatever it took. LEGEND: THE SECRET WORLD OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD : Epstein, Edward Jay: Amazon.es: Libros. He could project this type of image, and he did; he tried to. I think three major things [were] on his mind at that particular time. Could you describe that process of disillusionment? This was his grand experience at the time. Anytime they brought anything up that pertained to the assassination of the president and the shooting of the police officer, he knew nothing about it. New York City. He failed at both. Jolly West visited Jack Ruby in jail and gave him an injection and soon after Ruby died from rapid cancer, Jack was also a patsy! Lee and Marina were having difficulties, just by being together -- I guess by being put in new circumstances and everything. I'm talking about the police officer being shot and the president. It seemed like we were never in a location [more than] six or seven months, maybe a year at the most. Funding for FRONTLINE is provided through the support of PBS viewers and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. I said, "If that never came about, if you didn't really betray the country and you only attempted to do it -- and they didn't let you do it anyway -- legally, then it seems to me you have a basis." Convinced that his brother was solely responsible for the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Oswald offers details in this interview about Lee's formative years and young adult life, and describes how his brother's love of television shows on intrigue and espionage such as "I Led Three Lives," became the "training ground for his imagination." You've got the backyard picture. But he had prepared answers and statements, anticipating reporters either at the ship or some place down the line on the return. He wasn't political. Saltar al contenido principal.com.mx. The two events -- the failed assassination of Walker and the successful assassination of Kennedy -- just represent a ratcheting up, and eventually there's this culmination of violence, which is meant to enable Oswald's escape from his life, and this way, the homicide is as much a suicide. We were away from Lee during the three years of military school, only seeing him during the summer vacations or holiday-type things. What was his concern? I wrote him back that, to my knowledge, nothing he has done warrants any charges, because they did not let him accomplish anything over there, i.e., the U.S. Embassy did not accept his citizenship rejection. The Dallas Police Department was utter chaos. Can you sort of talk about that character trait? What would have been the appeal to him about something like Marxism? This interview was conducted in 1993 in conjunction with Frontline's first broadcast of "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald? In fact, she is quick to get moving on the bureaucratic process involved in that to emigrate. She could really become somebody from New York real easy when she's in Texas, putting on the air[s], whatever you call it. That's where he started doing a lot of reading and everything. New York City. Once again, its just a continual cycle, and it starts downhill. Uploaded by Now apparently, for whatever reasons or however they checked it out, they found out whatever he knew wasnt necessarily anything theyd be interested in. They're not progressing at the speed I think he wants to progress. He would tolerate anything for a little bit. , I think Ive come to an understanding of Lee that I have now that I didnt, of course I mean, I watched the deterioration of a human being. As far as material goods the car taking her to a grocery store the first time you can't believe how excited she was. He was expecting the future was going to resolve itself, that history would end. Definitely not. He wants to "do like Hemingway." The planning that Lee did probably at least extended all the way back to the time he was in Japan because of the clothes he purchased at the time, If it didnt work for Russia, he was going to stay in Europe anyway. It sounds like Oswald's disillusionment stemmed as much from personal as political reasons. Later, after the Kennedy assassination, McMillan befriended Oswald's widow, Marina, and the two spent considerable time together. Account en lijsten Retourzendingen en . He said no, he wanted that one up there. David Austin Walsh is the editor of the History News Network. It was a terrible thing to look at. Or he just walked the streets, ride the subways. After the genocide in Rwanda and atrocities in Srebrenica, Bosnia, in the 1990s, the world vowed never again. Then came the conflict in Darfur, Sudan, which began 20 years ago. Well, he went to do the things he always liked to do -- got to the movies if he had the money, go to the library and read if he didn't have it. Three months before he assassinated President John F. Kennedy, 23-year-old Lee Harvey Oswald was interviewed a total of three times on radio and television in New Orleans, Louisiana.The attention Oswald received was undoubtedly due to the fact that the media considered him to be a very odd and unusual character. Saturday, Nov. 23, 1963. Convinced that his brother was solely responsible for the assassination of John F. Kennedy, Oswald offers details in this interview about Lee's formative years and young adult life, and. Tell me about his interest in the television show I Led Three Lives and what that says about him and his imagination. After obtaining a hardship discharge from the Marines, Lee Harvey Oswald left the United States for the Soviet Union in 1959. Later, after the Kennedy. I've managed to keep it quiet." He planned by himself, he executed by himself, he failed by himself. Walker and, still chewing his cigar, Detective Paul Bentley, on Nov. 22, 1963. What's the best answer you come to for yourself regarding his motive? Oswald never stood trial for murder, because, while being transferred after having been taken into custody, he was shot and killed by Jack Ruby, a distraught Dallas nightclub owner. He was what's convenient to be. So you're saying, in a sense, he is the ultimate pragmatist? So then what happens, and how does he get to Dallas? I'd love to do that, but you cannot. This was a part of his character, that inner self, that we used to say, "Me, myself and I will do something.". Although that was Marguerite Oswald's first network television interview in many years, we were not the first journalists to speak with her. Everything is deteriorating. Hes failing in his marriage and in his attempts to do whatever he wants to do. Kennedy the discomfiture of coming back to trial.\" At the time of the shooting Ruby said he was taking phenmetrazine, a central nervous system stimulant.Ruby's explanation for killing Oswald would be \"exposed as a fabricated legal ploy\", according to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. He wasn't present when they took a head count [at the Texas School Book Depository]. Providing exclusive original content and interviews with some of the best known voices in the world of economics and precious metals. If it was any other murder case other than the president of the United States, it would have been resolved right then. Cuenta y Listas Devoluciones . Yes, Oswald moved twenty times with his mother before he turned seventeen, which is when he joined the Marines. She had been overbearing or whatever. Theyve got your pistol. What did he do? On Nov. 22, [1963] it went way downhill. So, to me, that was his back-up plan if everything else failed. He finally got a job that wasnt exactly what he really wanted, but it was a start. Or he just walked the streets, ride the subways. If somebody passed out a leaflet on the street that contained a political statement for Marxism or communism or what have you, and if Lee had not run across that before, I could envision him looking at it, keeping it and saying, Well, I wonder what this is all about. This might have been the first leaflet that he ever got from anybody on the street. Why was he asking for this lawyer, John Abt, up in New York? Jon and Jo Ann Hagler on behalf of the Jon L. Hagler Foundation. This would have to be at the federal level. WGBH educational foundation, In Fight Against ISIS, a Lose-Lose Scenario Poses Challenge for West. He didn't elaborate on that. This interview was conducted in 1993 in conjunction with Frontline's first broadcast of "Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?" So from Oswald's vantage point, the Soviet experiment, as he would have seen it, was this marvelous opportunity to transcend where he came from. Although Marina declined to be interviewed for FRONTLINE's program, McMillan talks about the perplexing, troubling events of Oswald's life based on what Marina confided to her. But then, Oct. 31, we hear that he's in Russia. What was his wife, Marina, like? Best Known For: Lee Harvey Oswald was a former U.S. Marine who was accused of killing President John F. Kennedy. Lee's fantasy life, to me, became apparent in the 1948, 1949, 1950 period. When I returned home from work that evening, I asked him about it, and he said, "Well, everything went all right. Well, his concern was, was there anything that I was aware of that [there] were going to be charges placed against him from anybody? [To those who say,] He didnt own a rifle. We know he owned a rifle. What would have been the appeal to him about something like Marxism? In his new book, The Interloper: Lee Harvey Oswald Inside the Soviet Union Peter Savodnik, a journalist who lived and worked in Moscow and has extensively traveled around the former Soviet Union, dives into the foreign life of America's most notorious assassin. Soviet officials, puzzled by the sight of Oswald, sent him to Minsk, where he would live until 1962, returning to the United States with a wife and infant daughter, along with a murderous rage that will culminate in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in Dallas on November 22, 1963. There's something about a sort of metaphysical break when it comes to his migration to the Soviet Union, and I think that in a way he set himself up for not only failure but terrible disappointment. I think that, more than anything, sheds a spotlight on the one-dimensionality of his ideological commitments, as it were. This is a struggle that has gone on with me for almost 30 years now. That was a training ground [for] his imagination. Marina Oswald and her mother-in-law, Marguerite Claverie Oswald, are seen through a window at the Dallas police station where her husband, Lee Harvey Oswald was being held in the. Later in the day, after driving into town with his two pet dogs and sending an emergency money order to one of his employees, Ruby walked to the nearby police headquarters, where he made his way to the basement via the Main Steet ramp. He could project this type of image, and he did; he tried to. ", A former litigator, Posner is a fulltime investigative writer. But he became disgusted with it and started rebelling against it, because he wanted to go back to a more independent attitude. He struggled. Thats almost unbelievable. Aline Mosby was one of the first women assigned to cover the Kremlin, while stationed in Moscow in 1959 she interviewed a self-exiled Lee Harvey Oswald, who. What kind of a Marxist was he? He started teaching this mans son how to write and talk Russian. That was a training ground [for] his imagination. She has no control over him. I would love to be able to say that Lee was not involved in any way whatsoever, or much less to the extent that I believe that he was. One individual gave him a letter saying he could speak and write Russian at a particular level that he thought was real good. But the diminutive nineteen-year-old Marine was serious. While he does not see Oswald as a Soviet, CIA or FBI recruit, he is careful to point out many of the unanswered questions regarding Oswald's mysterious associations and possible ties to the mob. Now apparently, for whatever reasons or however they checked it out, they found out whatever he knew wasn't necessarily anything they'd be interested in. If we go and get right down to the bottom line, we have to say, really and truly, in all candor, [she did] a lousy job, a lousy job. So, to me, that was his back-up plan if everything else failed. The National Archives released almost 1,500 documents including CIA cables and memos on Lee Harvey Oswald in the months before the JFK assassination.
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